"You Never Knooooow..."
Yeah. Just think of that expression being used by some Yenta from Boro Park or Flatbush. Makes you want to punch someone, doesn't it?I was "redd" to a guy/young man a while back, by two people, and told them both no. Emphatically. Now, close to 2 years later, the shadchan calls back (and she isn't even the money-hungry type!) and basically talked me into going out with this loser.
Her line of bait? "You never know, he might just be the one..." Now, I don't fall for this. The only problem is that I forgot why I said no in the first place. I remember writing him off because something I had heard. Yet, she shoved that cliche down my throat, and didn't really let me hang up the phone until I said yes.
I knew about halfway through the phone call that this guy was not gonna be "the one." And I was mad at this Shadchan. The guy was barely listening, and had the personality of a doorknob. When someone says no,--TWICE-- even if she can't remember the reason, can you at least trust her?
"But, ay, NO, she might be turning away her Basherte Chas V'Shalom!" Enough of this already. Stop forcing people to go out when they don't want to. I know too many people who have shared this frustration with me.
My favorite is, "you know, there was a couple that I set up 3 times, and they said no all 3 times, and then finally, they said yes, and they're happily married with 3 kids, another on the way..." I have a few answers for that. 1) Okay, so they won the lottery. Should I go buy 10 tickets every day? 2) Happily married according to whom? For all you know, they just got so desperate, they were willing to take whatever they could 3)Every situation is different. Maybe they said no on a basis that is changeable, or something that they realized later is not as important.
I feel that many Shadchanim exploit our vulnerability and exasperation by reminding us that "it just takes one," and of course, "this might just be it."
posted by Michelle @ 5:56 PM
18 Comments:
Aahh, good old fashioned yiddishe guilt served up by a trained specialist. You see it coming a mile away and you swear 'this time it will be different, I'm going to be strong, I can resist it if I only will it', and then 'boom', she's done it again. No, you cannot resist it; it's just too strong.
jew-unit--thanks, Amen
s/t,a/t--well put.
Yeah it sounds all too familiar, and when you finally put your foot down and insist that, no you won't go out, you'll be labled as "too picky" and people will stop trying to set you up. I sometimes wish the shadchanim could go out with the boys they set you up with and have to go through the hours of hell themselves before they try to push you to meet evey guy whose name comes across their radar.
This is not to say that they're not well intentioned, they are, but they usually don't stop to put themselves in your shoes, and believe that in your desperately single state you should be more than willing to meet any guy whose redd.
I really wish you luck in finding the right man, without being pushed into it.
Good post as usual.
Michelle, don't think that shadchanim only shove shiduchim down girls throats, they do it to the guys as well... Keep asking them.. Tell them... This is the one "i so see you guys together..."
these people mean it (or the money of it..)
does it mean, when I want to tell NO to the shadchan I have to say, what the reason was??? To finally just lay off??? I would hate to do it.. Just because I heard this tad bit of info, doenst mean someone else will, after all g-d plans who's for who.
But yea, look at it in a positive light- always have a good time, no matter if the guy is a shmuk (or the girl for that matter)
good luck, and I hope you find "the right one" at the right time, and iyh that should be soon.
Hi Michelle, I have a story for you...The following is absolutely true down to the last detail and I share it to prevent people making the same mistakes.
A girl I know was the youngest in her family. Her sisters were all married, to people from various parts of the religious spectrum, and she was old enough to want to be grown up like them. Plus, she didn't get on with her parents so was desperate to move out and she had romantic notions of starting life afresh in Eretz Yisroel.
Most of her family had married Yeshivishe types, so out of conformity and despite the warnings of many who knew he well and worried she was too much of a “free spirit” to be a kolel wife, she embarked on looking for a “good” shidduch.
It didn’t take long for a “good” boy to be suggested. The kalla was delighted, although she knew she would have to give up her DVD’s etc, she hoped the boy would mellow a bit and looked forward to life together.
The wedding night came as a shock. All of her teenage, fantasy inspired, imaginations were dashed. Her lingerie wasted. The guy had not one ounce of romance or even sensitivity in him. Having serenaded her at the wedding he turned into a robot in the bedroom. Following his “chosson shooz” to the letter, he simply undressed and told her to do the same. She cowered and cringed, but let him try to consummate the relationship. He failed, although the next night he managed (just), although in doing so he entirely neglected to pay the young lady any consideration or, ahem, attention.
She wept tears of rejection, but told herself that she had been warned that inexperience often made initial attempts clumsy and it would improve. It didn’t. In fact, it got worse.
The boy continued his learning. He davenned well. He was very machmir in halocho. He was also very socially inept and alarm bells soon began to ring.
His chumros became crippling. He was mean with money and greedy with food, while ignoring her eating disorder. They had no real connection.
Now, a few months later, the stories are staring to leak out. Basically, the more modern members of her family see things as untenable and think she should reconsider her position. The more traditional ones simply deny there are any problems – its all exaggerated, they say – and tell her to get on with living the life Hashem gave her.
Please listen to this tale. Please never marry to conform. Please make sure that even if you only meet once before the engagement, he makes you smile. Please listen to the warnings of those who care about you. It is so easy to make mistakes and so hard to put them right.
Perhaps the guy in the previous story is a homo.
But anyway. When they say "You never know," just said that sometimes you DO know.
I think the shadchanim are exploiting the whole so-called shidduch crisis to get people to go out even if there's no chance.
I know a guy who tells people that he learns only on Shabbos. It's the truth. Sometimes the shadchan asks what about during the week. The guy says, "No, Shabbos is enough for me." IOW, he knows himself and is not afraid to show who he is. That is key. So some girls won't go for him on that basis - good. It prevents a lot of bad dates,
anon-yeah that story is scary
anon-you could be right, the guy could b a homo, considering he was yeshivish and segregated all his life!!! but, thats for a whole other post :-)
Don't take this the wrong way.
I said no to my wife two years before we got married.
Two years later in the process of asking information about a different girl someone pushed me and said what about the one you asked me about a few years ago she is still around and I think she would be a better match. After the one I was asking about didn't pan out. I said let me look in to the original again, and we went out, after a dating period (that by the way, wasn't snag free) we got married. It is 15 years later, I and my wife are so happy together kn'h, I can't imagine being happier. Learnt in kollel many years, currently work and try to earn an honest living, we are far from rich, but it is all secondary to real happiness. We always joke about how we kept on turning each other down.
The lesson was I was younger, stupider (typical yeshiva guy, thinking I deserve a rich schver), imagining traits that weren't there, looking for things that weren't me. Two years later, still stupid, but a little less so, it worked. 15 yrs later, a lot less stupid, I am delighted (both of us are).
Now this does not mean this is your case, but you can't fault the shadchan for trying. If you feel your original reasons are still valid, say no again, and ignore any attempts to make you feel guilty. It doesn’t hurt, to take a second look, everybody changes, I don’t mean the boy, I mean us, the original reasons might not bother you that much anymore.
Good luck.
Michelle, I doubt it will make you feel bettter, but Im sure I can top any bad Shid story you have. One guy red to me was not nogea, I wanted to scream. But the Shadchan and a Rov had the nerve to tell me, you can always get Divorced, were not Christian.
"anon-you could be right, the guy could b a homo, considering he was yeshivish and segregated all his life!!!"
Do you have any proof that being yeshivish and "segregated" turns one into a "homo"? Puleez.
Semgirl what do you mean by not Nogea, when???
Totally agree that being separated does not cause homosexuality. Plenty of people who go to mixed schools turn out to be gay as well. Being in an all-boys school is not a cause, although it certainly makes acting on one's impulses easier.
Anon- Your story is exactly the same as mine however it is the reverse. The bedroom scene you describe was to the T. Girl, folowing exactly her teachers words. nothing else, no feeling. believe it or not they aare still married for better or for worse.
nonymous said...
Hi Michelle, I have a story for you...The following is absolutely true down to the last detail and I share it to prevent people making the same mistakes.
A girl I know was the youngest in her family. Her sisters were all married, to people from various parts of the religious spectrum, and she was old enough to want to be grown up like them. Plus, she didn't get on with her parents so was desperate to move out and she had romantic notions of starting life afresh in Eretz Yisroel.
Anon- Your story is exactly the same as mine however it is the reverse. The bedroom scene you describe was to the T. Girl, folowing exactly her teachers words. nothing else, no feeling. believe it or not they aare still married for better or for worse.
nonymous said...
Hi Michelle, I have a story for you...The following is absolutely true down to the last detail and I share it to prevent people making the same mistakes.
A girl I know was the youngest in her family. Her sisters were all married, to people from various parts of the religious spectrum, and she was old enough to want to be grown up like them. Plus, she didn't get on with her parents so was desperate to move out and she had romantic notions of starting life afresh in Eretz Yisroel.
The problem with "you never know" is that under that standard, you have to go out with everyone. Because, you never know, that divorced wife-beater, may be your bashert.
I have never agreed with you more. People have said to me, "you have to be very careful who you say no to, cuz may be you'll say no to your bashert." I may not be that great in the emunah/bitachon department, but I think I do have enough faith to believe that G-d is taking care of things and will make sure I don't say no to my bashert. If you llok at shidduchim that way, you'd have to date every person ever mentioned! And saying no doesn't mean someone is "picky." I mean, you have to spend the rest of your life with this person: you're entitled to be very careful!
Michelle,
It works though doesn't it? They do convince you to go out w/ these shmos, and you have fed into their trap. Hate to make it all sound so cynical, but but I think sometimes these shadchanim have an agenda to marry off the boy, and the girls are so desperate they say yes to any dates. Be strong. and enough dating posts!
Yes, thanks for bringing it to my attention--I forgot to clarify that I DID say "no" 2 years later, but she wouldn't take it for an answer. I certainly don't blame her for revisiting the shidduch 2 years later, but if I say "no" 2 years later, then take it, and don't force me to go out.
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